A conversation with...
The IBA continued its popular Annual Conference 'Conversation with' sessions online at Virtually Together, welcoming a number of distinguished guests.
During the final week of the Conference, the featured interviewees were Justice Richard J Goldstone, former Justice, Constitutional Court of South Africa; Dr Fatou Bensouda, ICC Prosecutor; Congressman Tae Yong Ho of South Korea; Gordon Brown, UK Prime Minister 2007-2010; HRH Prince El Hassan bin Talal of Jordan, President of the Arab Thought Forum; and Baroness Valerie Amos, Master of University College Oxford.
On Tuesday 24 November, Justice Richard Goldstone, the former Chief Prosecutor of the United Nations International Criminal Tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda, spoke to South African journalist Jane Dutton about many international justice issues, including the United States’ record on human rights, global corruption, human rights in the UK following Brexit, and more.
Much of the discussion covered the effectiveness of the International Criminal Court (ICC). Justice Goldstone said, ‘I have little doubt that the presence of the ICC and the implementation of international criminal law… can have a deterrent effect’. But, he noted, many countries accused of war crimes haven’t ratified the Rome Statute and don’t fall within the ICC’s jurisdiction.
He added, ‘It’s not the prosecutor’s fault that Syria is not before the ICC. The fault is with the [UN] Security Council. Only the Security Council has the power to refer those countries to the ICC, and it’s prevented from doing that by the power of the veto from Russia and China’. He went on to say, ‘Security Council members shouldn’t be using their veto to protect people who are allegedly guilty of genocide, ethnic cleansing and other serious war crimes. But that is what’s happening’.
He highlighted current attempts to get the UN General Assembly and the International Court of Justice to declare that countries using their veto to protect war criminals are acting unlawfully. ‘And they are’, he said. ‘They are all members of the Genocide Convention, [which] obliges them to take steps to prevent genocide. When they veto steps to prevent genocide in the Security Council they are acting contrary to their international legal obligations’.
Fatou Bensouda, Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC or the Court), spoke to Dr Mark Ellis, IBA Executive Director, about the Court’s role as a vanguard for today’s focus on accountability in justice and being placed under US sanctions by the Trump administration.
‘The sanctions are unprecedented. It is an attempt to interfere with the course of justice, to be able to meet certain […] politically-motivated outcomes, which have nothing to do with the rule of law, it has nothing to do with accountability for atrocity crimes and it has nothing to do with the judicial process’, said Bensouda.
Discussing the criticism that the ICC often receives for so-called ‘Africa bias’, she highlighted the various other countries the Court is investigating in, or beginning preliminary investigations in, such as Afghanistan, Palestine and Myanmar. For Bensouda, these cases demonstrate the Court’s ‘commitment to the goals and the values’ of the Rome Statute. ‘The fact that the ICC is even able to operate in those places […] which have not ratified the Rome Statute, I think this is a clear demonstration of the potential universal reach of the Court’, she said.
While she wished for universality – for every country to join the ICC – she also highlighted that it was built and will always be based on complementarity and needs the support of states. Until such a time where domestic jurisdictions can develop, investigate and prosecute serious atrocity crimes themselves, the Court will continue fighting for justice for the victims and stressing that ‘impunity is not an option’.
Congressman Tae Yong Ho previously held a number of governmental roles in North Korea, including as the Minister of the North Korean Embassy in London from 2013-2016, before defecting to South Korea in 2016. He was elected to the 21st National Assembly of the Republic of Korea in 2020 and has been serving as a member of the Foreign Affairs and Unification Committee of the National Assembly.
Congressman Tae spoke extensively of his experiences growing up in North Korea, describing the country’s governing philosophy and its class system which determines, for example, the job a person might expect to get. He highlighted how his work as a diplomat, posted initially in Denmark, gave him a sense of how other countries work and created doubts in his mind about the North Korean ideology.
Further, Congressman Tae spoke of why North Korea is reluctant to liberalise either politically or economically as countries such as Vietnam have done, and highlighted that if North Korea allows freedom of movement, it may see many people leave for South Korea and not return. Turning to the future, Congressman Tae noted that North Korea is changing both culturally and ideologically, with many people now regularly accessing entertainment produced in South Korea.
Gordon Brown served as the UK Prime Minister from 2007 to 2010 and Chancellor of the Exchequer from 1997 to 2007; today he is the UN Special Envoy for Global Education and is a passionate advocate for the rights of children.
In a wide-ranging interview with the IBA’s Executive Director, Dr Mark Ellis, Brown discussed the state of the world since the Financial Crisis and commented on the move firstly to ‘defensive nationalism’ and then to a more ‘aggressive nationalism’ as exemplified by the US’ ‘America First’ policies. Brown analysed the reasons behind the growth of populism over the past decade and why addressing its root causes, such as income inequality, is key to avoiding the world slipping back into nationalistic silos.
Assessing the world as we prepare to enter 2021, Brown spoke of the need for globally coordinated action, not only to recover from the pandemic but also to combat tax evasion, to achieve the UN Sustainable Development goals, and to address the climate crisis.
In terms of the UK, Brown highlighted that the UK-US ‘special relationship’ is a deep bond that will ultimately survive, and that the incoming Biden administration in the US has already, in his view, pushed the UK closer to a Brexit deal with the EU.
His Royal Highness Prince El Hassan bin Talal, President of the Arab Thought Forum spoke to IBA Content Director James Lewis about the shift from power politics to a world where justice and human dignity prevail.
Prince Hassan served as Jordan’s Crown Prince from April 1965 until January 1999, held a critical role in the Jordan-Israel Peace negotiations, and founded the Independent Commission on International Humanitarian Issues. A pluralist and staunch campaigner for the rights of all to live in peace and dignity, Prince Hassan emphasised extensively the need to ‘humanise facts and figures’ in light of Covid-19 and legally empower the poor.
He spoke to sociocide, the future role of Jordan, the need for agreement between Palestinians and Israelis, the recent Abraham Accords, the relationship between Muslim countries and the United States, and working towards a law of peace.
During the conversation, Prince Hassan answered questions on communication technology and remarked, ‘Communication today is the science of speed, not the science of reflection…I hope that technology for virtuous causes is enhanced and developed’.
Prince Hassan also spoke to 80 per cent of the world’s refugees being Muslim and lamented that many ‘are not stable in their own countries, partially because of their political systems and partly because of the climate’, similar to being locked out of a fortress trapped in a barbaric world. He laid emphasis on the need to develop justice and human dignity, and the essential role of the rule of law.
Baroness Valerie Amos served as the United Nations Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator 2010–2015 and Chief Executive of the United Kingdom’s Equal Opportunities Commission 1989–94, leader of the House of Lords 2003–2007, and among many other achievements is now the first Black head of any Oxford college.
She spoke to Baroness Helena Kennedy, Director of the IBA’s Human Rights Institute, in conversation on Tuesday 26 November.
Two core issues emerged from the discussion. First, that addressing inequality, whether sex-based, racial or class discrimination, requires an intersectional lens. Baroness Amos noted that ‘inequality is structural, rooted throughout our society’, and that ‘we have to be very careful about how quickly what is seen as progress can slip back’.
Second, the future of multilateralism and abandonment of global leadership, including the UK cutting its international development aid budget. Of her work at the UN, Baroness Amos said, ‘I was frankly often ashamed at the way government and the international community more broadly were behaving’, and that seeing the reality of famine, conflict, and climate change made clear ‘the result of inaction at the UN Security Council’.
Reforming the UN will require courageous leaders willing to dispense with diplomatic conventions, and should entail greater accountability for member states instead of continued hiding behind the notion of state sovereignty, she added.
The discussion also covered issues including: conflict situations; humanitarian crises; politics in the United States and the debate around policing; and Britain’s often hidden history of colonialism, the veneration of complicated legacies like that of Cecil Rhodes, and the connectivity of this history to global issues and Britain’s wealth today.
IBA 2020 – Virtually Together Weekly News
Week 4: 23-27 November 2020
IBAHRI Showcase: the attack on media freedom - a growing phenomenon
On 23 November, the International Bar Association’s Human Rights Institute (IBAHRI) hosted this showcase session moderated by the IBAHRI Director, Baroness Helena Kennedy QC, who spoke to the panel of experts about the global increase in attacks on media freedom and the worldwide persecution of journalists and media workers.
At the session, the IBAHRI, in conjunction with the High Level Panel of Legal Experts on Media Freedom, released a report: 'Providing Safe Refuge to Journalists at Risk', authored by Professor Can Yeginsu, barrister and member of the High Level Panel.
The report examines the circumstances that make relocation necessary for journalists at risk and puts forward recommendations for the protection and promotion of media freedom.
Amal Clooney, Deputy Chair of the High Level Panel, praised the report as ‘brilliant’ and said ‘I do hope states will make use of this tremendous resource and I know that we both look forward to hearing their detailed response to each of the recommendations’.
David McCraw, Vice President and Deputy General Counsel at The New York Times Company and Lecturer on Law, Harvard Law School, commented during the showcase: ‘Perhaps the most disturbing number in the report is the number 17 – as in 17 per cent. As set out in paragraph 226, CPJ found that only 17 per cent of journalists in exile continued to engage in journalism. So even when journalists have found safety their oppressors have won. They have silenced voices. The report is right that we must first find ways to give journalists safe harbours elsewhere. But the next objective must be to set the conditions that will also give them their voices back.’
The High Level Panel released two additional reports during November: ‘Advice on Promoting More Effective Investigations into Abuses Against Journalists’ by Nadim Houry and ‘A Pressing Concern: Protecting and Promoting Press Freedom by Strengthening Consular Support to Journalists at Risk’ by the Honourable Irwin Cotler. These reports provide in-depth research and analysis of their topics and put forward recommendations on strengthening investigations into attacks on journalists and increasing accountability for consular support, respectively.
Rule of Law Symposium: Rule of Law in the time of Covid-19
The Rule of Law Symposium concluded Virtually Together on Friday 27 November. IBAHRI Director Baroness Helena Kennedy QC, IBA Rule of Law Forum Chair Stephen Macliver and veteran broadcaster Jon Snow presented and moderated this year’s session, entitled ‘Rule of Law in the time of Covid-19’. The webinar explored the platform that the pandemic has provided for rises in human rights abuses worldwide, and what we must learn from it.
The lively session saw a large, worldwide attendance tune in to listen to panellists and ask questions.
Professor Staffan Lindberg from the V-Dem Institute, an independent research organisation, gave a thorough presentation based on V-Dem research, on the broad outlook for democracy across the globe and the effect the pandemic had had, pinpointing ‘autocractic surges’ and ‘democractic backsliding’ in a number of countries.
Bianca Jagger, founder of the Bianca Jagger Human Rights Foundation, noted the deadly impact of the virus in Latin America, going on to focus in particular on a surge in domestic violence following the ‘stay at home’ message.
Neri Colmenares, human rights lawyer and activist from the Philippines, and 2020 winner of the IBA Award for Outstanding Contribution to Human Rights, criticised President Duterte’s handling of the pandemic, saying he had approached it like a war – as a military issue, rather than as a public health crisis.
Irwin Cotler from the Raoul Wallenberg Institute and former Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, discussed the ‘pandemics’ in circulation on top of Covid-19 – the ‘political pandemic’ and the ‘pandemic of impunity’, which combined are serving to create great problems for the rule of law.
The final 30 minutes of the hour-and-a-half session saw the panel fielding many questions on a variety of topics from attendees, ably moderated and directed by Jon Snow.
Committee sessions
On Monday 23 November, ‘Art Market 4.0 — computers and creative process: between AI and the law’ explored the role of the virtual realm in the creation, exhibition and sale of art – from artificial intelligence to blockchain. Also on the theme of technology, ‘Medtech M&A’ looked at how lawyers can provide a medical technology company with the best possible chance of success, from navigating regulatory requirements to protecting intellectual property.
On Tuesday 24 November, the session ‘Bullying and sexual harassment in the legal profession - can we change the culture?’ followed the IBA Legal Policy and Research Unit’s 2019 report on the same themes. The session focused particularly on the role that educators, trainers and professional development leaders can play, both in changing the culture and in equipping lawyers to deal effectively with current realities.
From law firms to general counsel, ‘The in-house legal departments of the future’ analysed the new trends, challenges and disruptions facing in-house lawyers today, including changes in talent models and organisational risk and exposure. ‘Oil and gas and national security’ took place on Wednesday 25 November. This session analysed security issues for the industry, including oil facility attacks, political risks and cyber threats.
In ‘A global comparative analysis of beneficial ownership approaches: how burdensome; how effective?’, panellists examined the differing approaches taken by jurisdictions to this issue, and asked what’s most effective, and what are the challenges for legal practitioners in advising their clients on how to comply with potentially burdensome requirements.
A session on Thursday 26 November, ‘Litigating in the internet age’, considered the need for litigators to be aware of how technology – such as online court processes – can assist them.
On the same day, ‘Presidential Task Force continuation: the emergency evacuation visa and protocol for migrant children’ presented an update to a showcase session held at the IBA Annual Conference in Seoul in 2019. This year’s session looked to further develop the initiatives achieved through the Presidential Task Force.
Ending the week, ‘The judiciary at risk - a case study’ was held on Friday 27 November, in conjunction with the IBA's Human Rights Institute. This session discussed how in some jurisdictions the judiciary are on the front line of risk – in terms of their professional independence; their integrity and neutrality; and to their physical, intellectual and personal safety.
In ‘Private equity and public markets: IPOs, go private transactions, PIPE’s and spinouts’, the panel explored the interface between private equity and public markets, and looked, for example, at what happens when private equity launches portfolio companies onto public markets in initial public offerings.
A conversation with...
The IBA continued its popular Annual Conference 'Conversation with' sessions online at Virtually Together, welcoming a number of distinguished guests.
During the final week of the Conference, the featured interviewees were Justice Richard J Goldstone, former Justice, Constitutional Court of South Africa; Dr Fatou Bensouda, ICC Prosecutor; Congressman Tae Yong Ho of South Korea; Gordon Brown, UK Prime Minister 2007-2010; HRH Prince El Hassan bin Talal of Jordan, President of the Arab Thought Forum; and Baroness Valerie Amos, Master of University College Oxford.
On Tuesday 24 November, Justice Richard Goldstone, the former Chief Prosecutor of the United Nations International Criminal Tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda, spoke to South African journalist Jane Dutton about many international justice issues, including the United States’ record on human rights, global corruption, human rights in the UK following Brexit, and more.
Much of the discussion covered the effectiveness of the International Criminal Court (ICC). Justice Goldstone said, ‘I have little doubt that the presence of the ICC and the implementation of international criminal law… can have a deterrent effect’. But, he noted, many countries accused of war crimes haven’t ratified the Rome Statute and don’t fall within the ICC’s jurisdiction.
He added, ‘It’s not the prosecutor’s fault that Syria is not before the ICC. The fault is with the [UN] Security Council. Only the Security Council has the power to refer those countries to the ICC, and it’s prevented from doing that by the power of the veto from Russia and China’. He went on to say, ‘Security Council members shouldn’t be using their veto to protect people who are allegedly guilty of genocide, ethnic cleansing and other serious war crimes. But that is what’s happening’.
He highlighted current attempts to get the UN General Assembly and the International Court of Justice to declare that countries using their veto to protect war criminals are acting unlawfully. ‘And they are’, he said. ‘They are all members of the Genocide Convention, [which] obliges them to take steps to prevent genocide. When they veto steps to prevent genocide in the Security Council they are acting contrary to their international legal obligations’.
Fatou Bensouda, Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC or the Court), spoke to Dr Mark Ellis, IBA Executive Director, about the Court’s role as a vanguard for today’s focus on accountability in justice and being placed under US sanctions by the Trump administration.
‘The sanctions are unprecedented. It is an attempt to interfere with the course of justice, to be able to meet certain […] politically-motivated outcomes, which have nothing to do with the rule of law, it has nothing to do with accountability for atrocity crimes and it has nothing to do with the judicial process’, said Bensouda.
Discussing the criticism that the ICC often receives for so-called ‘Africa bias’, she highlighted the various other countries the Court is investigating in, or beginning preliminary investigations in, such as Afghanistan, Palestine and Myanmar. For Bensouda, these cases demonstrate the Court’s ‘commitment to the goals and the values’ of the Rome Statute. ‘The fact that the ICC is even able to operate in those places […] which have not ratified the Rome Statute, I think this is a clear demonstration of the potential universal reach of the Court’, she said.
While she wished for universality – for every country to join the ICC – she also highlighted that it was built and will always be based on complementarity and needs the support of states. Until such a time where domestic jurisdictions can develop, investigate and prosecute serious atrocity crimes themselves, the Court will continue fighting for justice for the victims and stressing that ‘impunity is not an option’.
Congressman Tae Yong Ho previously held a number of governmental roles in North Korea, including as the Minister of the North Korean Embassy in London from 2013-2016, before defecting to South Korea in 2016. He was elected to the 21st National Assembly of the Republic of Korea in 2020 and has been serving as a member of the Foreign Affairs and Unification Committee of the National Assembly.
Congressman Tae spoke extensively of his experiences growing up in North Korea, describing the country’s governing philosophy and its class system which determines, for example, the job a person might expect to get. He highlighted how his work as a diplomat, posted initially in Denmark, gave him a sense of how other countries work and created doubts in his mind about the North Korean ideology.
Further, Congressman Tae spoke of why North Korea is reluctant to liberalise either politically or economically as countries such as Vietnam have done, and highlighted that if North Korea allows freedom of movement, it may see many people leave for South Korea and not return. Turning to the future, Congressman Tae noted that North Korea is changing both culturally and ideologically, with many people now regularly accessing entertainment produced in South Korea.
Gordon Brown served as the UK Prime Minister from 2007 to 2010 and Chancellor of the Exchequer from 1997 to 2007; today he is the UN Special Envoy for Global Education and is a passionate advocate for the rights of children.
In a wide-ranging interview with the IBA’s Executive Director, Dr Mark Ellis, Brown discussed the state of the world since the Financial Crisis and commented on the move firstly to ‘defensive nationalism’ and then to a more ‘aggressive nationalism’ as exemplified by the US’ ‘America First’ policies. Brown analysed the reasons behind the growth of populism over the past decade and why addressing its root causes, such as income inequality, is key to avoiding the world slipping back into nationalistic silos.
Assessing the world as we prepare to enter 2021, Brown spoke of the need for globally coordinated action, not only to recover from the pandemic but also to combat tax evasion, to achieve the UN Sustainable Development goals, and to address the climate crisis.
In terms of the UK, Brown highlighted that the UK-US ‘special relationship’ is a deep bond that will ultimately survive, and that the incoming Biden administration in the US has already, in his view, pushed the UK closer to a Brexit deal with the EU.
His Royal Highness Prince El Hassan bin Talal, President of the Arab Thought Forum spoke to IBA Content Director James Lewis about the shift from power politics to a world where justice and human dignity prevail.
Prince Hassan served as Jordan’s Crown Prince from April 1965 until January 1999, held a critical role in the Jordan-Israel Peace negotiations, and founded the Independent Commission on International Humanitarian Issues. A pluralist and staunch campaigner for the rights of all to live in peace and dignity, Prince Hassan emphasised extensively the need to ‘humanise facts and figures’ in light of Covid-19 and legally empower the poor.
He spoke to sociocide, the future role of Jordan, the need for agreement between Palestinians and Israelis, the recent Abraham Accords, the relationship between Muslim countries and the United States, and working towards a law of peace.
During the conversation, Prince Hassan answered questions on communication technology and remarked, ‘Communication today is the science of speed, not the science of reflection…I hope that technology for virtuous causes is enhanced and developed’.
Prince Hassan also spoke to 80 per cent of the world’s refugees being Muslim and lamented that many ‘are not stable in their own countries, partially because of their political systems and partly because of the climate’, similar to being locked out of a fortress trapped in a barbaric world. He laid emphasis on the need to develop justice and human dignity, and the essential role of the rule of law.
Baroness Valerie Amos served as the United Nations Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator 2010–2015 and Chief Executive of the United Kingdom’s Equal Opportunities Commission 1989–94, leader of the House of Lords 2003–2007, and among many other achievements is now the first Black head of any Oxford college.
She spoke to Baroness Helena Kennedy, Director of the IBA’s Human Rights Institute, in conversation on Tuesday 26 November.
Two core issues emerged from the discussion. First, that addressing inequality, whether sex-based, racial or class discrimination, requires an intersectional lens. Baroness Amos noted that ‘inequality is structural, rooted throughout our society’, and that ‘we have to be very careful about how quickly what is seen as progress can slip back’.
Second, the future of multilateralism and abandonment of global leadership, including the UK cutting its international development aid budget. Of her work at the UN, Baroness Amos said, ‘I was frankly often ashamed at the way government and the international community more broadly were behaving’, and that seeing the reality of famine, conflict, and climate change made clear ‘the result of inaction at the UN Security Council’.
Reforming the UN will require courageous leaders willing to dispense with diplomatic conventions, and should entail greater accountability for member states instead of continued hiding behind the notion of state sovereignty, she added.
The discussion also covered issues including: conflict situations; humanitarian crises; politics in the United States and the debate around policing; and Britain’s often hidden history of colonialism, the veneration of complicated legacies like that of Cecil Rhodes, and the connectivity of this history to global issues and Britain’s wealth today.